tired of being booted for cheating?

[schadenfreud]

I have an idea to really mess up the private trackers that keep banning cheaters....
since the scripts check & account for bits UPloaded and DOWNloaded, and both must balance between all clients in a torrent, it would be incredibly funny to mess up the balance in a way that scripts CANNOT tell who is faking and who is not.
How? That's easy!
-falsely UNDER-report downloads randomly and in varying quantities! then the uploader who isn't cheating will be suspected of faking his uploads, and will be in danger of account disablement!

Sites known to use the accounting method for catching cheaters include:
pisexy
bitmetv
bitme
oink.me.uk
and lots more. Using my method, a handful of leechers armed with the underreporting client would wreak havoc among these sites & cause the downfall of their anti-leeching system, BECAUSE nobody could be sure which clients are actually cheating any more...
honest clients must be suspected as often as dishonest clients. Therefore it becomes battle of attrition which benefits instability.

Of course I must caution you all to not do this. Cheating is wrong, blah blah blah blah ruins it for everybody etc

 

[schadenfreud]

to clarify: the under-reporting client is always taken at face value on the above-mentioned sites. Therefore the truthful client (honest uploader) will get burnt b/c his client is reporting more uploads than your client reports downloads..
that's why this works.

 

[tanu]

Something I don't understand. U say that " UPloaded and DOWNloaded, and both must balance between all clients in a torrent" ok if the tracker has a situation like, 1 seed and 20 leecher, one or more of these leecher are cheating and sending fake info to the tracker, now how will the script figure out who send the fake and who didn't ?

 

[Kenrin]

sounds crazy, start coding it into azureus and we'll test it for you

 

[schadenfreud]

Something I don't understand. U say that " UPloaded and DOWNloaded, and both must balance between all clients in a torrent" ok if the tracker has a situation like, 1 seed and 20 leecher, one or more of these leecher are cheating and sending fake info to the tracker, now how will the script figure out who send the fake and who didn't ?

ok, imagine it's simplified a bit. say there's only 1 seeder & 1 leech.
the (honest) seeder says "I uploaded 45MB"
but the (dishonest) leech says "I downloaded 30MB"
Who does the tracker believe? currently, the sites listed above will believe that the seeder is cheating
there is no intermediary to determine who is actually cheating here. it is impossible to decide that, so they take the more likely scenario, which is to assume that the seeder is lying. then they ban his ass.
your client must always under-report its completion percentage tho, and will probably have to report less than 100% even when the whole torrent is complete for you. i'm not sure how to work this one out yet... it bears some thought.

 

[schadenfreud]

the idea is basically to undermine the cheater-banning mechanism. If the attrition rate is too high, the private tracker must ease off the banning or else risk alienating its best members.

The only flaw, as i see it, is that the site owner can join a torrent and will know IMMEDIATELY if somebody is fake-under-reporting b/c one side of the equation is known to be true, ergo ur own client must be cheating. So there is risk, but if the under-reporting is small or disguised somehow then it'd work.

The effort expended to catch clients which randomly under-report downloads by varying amounts would be enormous. Most sites cannot afford this extra overhead.

 

[drmwvr20]

heh that sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm pretty sure you can say goodbye to your account also after using this for some time for sure.
I did pretty much this thing on a private tracker (using the download reduction function in Shu's Mod) and I got banned pretty much instantly, don't know what about the seeder in this case :tongue: .
Anyway, what I'm saying is that there's more to those anti- cheating scripts than we might think. I opened a thread about trying to figure out the way we get caught (on bitme ie) and didn't get much info actually.

 

[schadenfreud]

heh that sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm pretty sure you can say goodbye to your account also after using this for some time for sure.
I did pretty much this thing on a private tracker (using the download reduction function in Shu's Mod) and I got banned pretty much instantly, don't know what about the seeder in this case :tongue: .
Anyway, what I'm saying is that there's more to those anti- cheating scripts than we might think. I opened a thread about trying to figure out the way we get caught (on bitme ie) and didn't get much info actually.

dude!! i am DEFINATELY looking into shu's mod now
how did i miss this one??!?!

EDIT: still need a function to randomly under-report downloads by small amounts, & only to certain IP's

 

[JazzMatazz]

whats the f u c k i n g point (, alter!) !

I mean this is not an anarchy or phreaking forum.
Peer to peer is not meant for cheating. If you start breaking balls in an intrusive way, where you harm people for there decency, coders will start taking cheating really seriously.
Not a good idea IMHO

 

[Urjah]

i think its an interesting feature but way too complicated to put into practice at large scale

 

[regulator]

Thats retarded why fuck with with users like that who are actually sharing.

 

[XLiWX]

whats the f u c k i n g point (, alter!) !

I mean this is not an anarchy or phreaking forum.
Peer to peer is not meant for cheating. If you start breaking balls in an intrusive way, where you harm people for there decency, coders will start taking cheating really seriously.
Not a good idea IMHO

exactly , by doing these sort of things the ppl actually contributing and sharing will fall into trouble . we dont want that , the only purpose this forum is made so that the ones with lesser connections have a little chance of staying up in the private trackers .

infact we should be contributing as well in whatever way possible even with the lesser connections , i upload even tho i dont have a good connection , and yes it does feel nice when u upload stuff to others ... even little uploading does make a difference ... those who think of this rubbish ideas where by which the honest guys fall in trouble should be burned in hell . these guys DONT deserve to be in the private trackers .

 

[traxen]

Its an interesting idea due to the attack on moronic, hypersensitive moderators... Lets bring up more of their illed temper ;P
They could fall flat on their face since they might overcharge their authority tie.

BUT

If regular nice users have to take the heat .... to get this ball rolling,
I'm not fond of this idea at all.

As said before, this should be a place for people with connection problems that need a lil bit of assistance on the way.
Filesharing is still pretty damn good, even tho there a bunch of "cheaters" out there.

Maybe we should even turn the word into something more political correct: "less fortunate" ;P

 

[traxen]

Gave this thought some more sizzle.

1) Good users gets banned due to statistics.
2) The "falsly accused user" goes to the IRC chan of the tracker and tries to pleed for innocense.
3) That rarely goes well. To many factors speak against him from start.
Remember, stats is the key evidence.
4) The mods gets tired of more people getting caught with cheating.
5) Less and less mods gives people a chance, since they are starting to believe cheaters are increasing and that they should be eradicated.

It's just a vicious cycle ... where people gets pissed off.

1) Mods (angry)
2) Users (sad)
3) Community (in shambles)
4) Cheaters "less fortunate" (blamed for starting it)
5) Evil Cheaters (should be shoot)
6) Coders (Creating more apps to control the community, that ends in moderators hands, who do not cheerish the community as much as they should. The power tie is greater)

 

[warezdude]

Gave this thought some more sizzle.

1) Good users gets banned due to statistics.
2) The "falsly accused user" goes to the IRC chan of the tracker and tries to pleed for innocense.
3) That rarely goes well. To many factors speak against him from start.
Remember, stats is the key evidence.
4) The mods gets tired of more people getting caught with cheating.
5) Less and less mods gives people a chance, since they are starting to believe cheaters are increasing and that they should be eradicated.

It's just a vicious cycle ... where people gets pissed off.

1) Mods (angry)
2) Users (sad)
3) Community (in shambles)
4) Cheaters "less fortunate" (blamed for starting it)
5) Evil Cheaters (should be shoot)
6) Coders (Creating more apps to control the community, that ends in moderators hands, who do not cheerish the community as much as they should. The power tie is greater)

thats actually the scenario @ oink, i had a torrent that i accidently deleted an nfo on while i was seeding, i quickly replaced it but the torrent hash was tehn messed up and would only seed to 99.9%, since i wa sthe oringinator of the file no one had a complete file so in the end i ended up reporting a much larger upload than what was downloaded.. i think in a situation like that the seeders could request more data from me in hopes to get correct data.. anyway i got banned, went in teh channel and they said i was cheating i think i was using a week old ver of azureus at the time.. so they said see ya. there was nothingi could do, so i unplugged my cable modem and got a new ip.. hah

 

[scubascythan]

Great, bitemetv bans? Ugh. I don't think this method will work very well, since it's VERY easy to detect underreporting clients, simply by comparing Downloaded to Percentage of file you have with the total size of torrent. Seeing someone DLed only 20MB yet they are at 90% of a 700MB file, kinda easy to spot someone underreporting...

 

[warezdude]

Great, bitemetv bans? Ugh. I don't think this method will work very well, since it's VERY easy to detect underreporting clients, simply by comparing Downloaded to Percentage of file you have with the total size of torrent. Seeing someone DLed only 20MB yet they are at 90% of a 700MB file, kinda easy to spot someone underreporting...

what if you set up a dummy account to request all that data?

 

[imported_wizard]

well, on big trackers this is no way to detect, while even in azureus sometiems u dl more than the real file size,

anyway uploaders will not cheat because tehy don't need to, they have just enaugh fast connections to handle the situationswithout cheating (lol)

 

[v1cious]

whats the f u c k i n g point (, alter!) !

I mean this is not an anarchy or phreaking forum.
Peer to peer is not meant for cheating. If you start breaking balls in an intrusive way, where you harm people for there decency, coders will start taking cheating really seriously.
Not a good idea IMHO

and what's the difference between this and leecher mods? i don't follow you. besides, if we don't do it-someone else will. the way i see it: it's gonna regardless, it's inevitable. the only difference is we'd be on the ground floor when it does.

 

[wlewarski]

some isp`s will disconect your account for file sharing.what is one to do.